Welcome to the #CriticalFewActions™ to improve your business podcast. I’m John Downes and I’m here to help you cut through the overwhelm and prioritise what matters most to improve your business. Let’s get started and discover the #CriticalFewActions™ that have the biggest impact.

Welcome to the #CriticalFewActions™ to Improve Your Business [00:00:30] podcast. Today, I have the pleasure of chatting with Dominic Russo, who is the co founder and CEO of Diadem, a world class wayfinding and signage consultancy with over 25 years of experience. With his partners, he began the business back in 2000, and it’s gone from strength to strength then.

Dominic, welcome.

Thanks, John. Glad to be here.

Dominic, it’s been a delight to get to know you since our first CEO masterclass in 2019. Can you tell me a bit about your story? [00:01:00] I mean, corporate rebranding and wayfinding, they sound like two very different disciplines. How do they relate and how did they morph into your career?

Yeah, it’s a, it’s actually a pretty interesting story of going back to the beginning, I guess, to be brutally honest, signage was never something I gave any thought to or the industry for that matter. I thought at the time as a young and up and coming designer that the automotive design industry was my calling.

I was always passionate about [00:01:30] cars as a young person. And I guess, I was really. Intrigued by, you know, the whole fabrication processes, the forging of metal into such seductive shapes. I always wanted to be a car designer, so I studied industrial design. But then whilst I didn’t make the cut to work over at places like Ford and Holden, I found an avenue working in the exhibition industry, and that gave me an opportunity to work adjacently, we were doing a lot of the trade shows for automotive, what used to be the motor [00:02:00] shows, and that suddenly introduced me into this world of multidisciplinary activity where we had everything from obviously graphic design, industrial design, interior, retail design, all kind of coming together.

So this whole sort of space, was all new to me, but I also found it really fascinating and in that world, I guess, signage plays a big part of it. there’s a bit of theatrics involved in exhibitions and so forth and that, that was kind of where it started because then that led me to an opportunity to work with a small firm that was [00:02:30] engaged.

When telecom was rebranding, it’s probably still to this day, one of the largest corporate rebranding programs that has occurred in Australia and, you know, I was part of a team and we were designing everything from vehicle livery, telephone booths, obviously the signage components going on buildings and then also trade shows because of my exhibition background. And that’s where it started. I fell down a hole and, you know, essentially, that’s sort of how it all came about the way, I guess, to answer your question in terms of corporate [00:03:00] rebranding and wayfinding, they are linked, but not obviously to begin with, because when you think about signage, the way we do as.

a means to an end, be it an experience rather than a product. they, they do kind of make sense when you’re thinking about complex spaces like shopping centers or when you think about airports and things like that. So the branding component and the navigation component kind of both lend themselves to an overall user experience.

And yeah, so that’s, that’s how they come together. And that’s [00:03:30] essentially at the heart of what Diadem does.

Wow. Because, you know, I think about it, you know, I, I flew to work daily for 10 years, in America and all around Australia. So I’ve probably been in, probably hundreds of airports. And I just think about now. Uh, effortless, it becomes to navigate your way around a completely foreign place when you’re in a hurry going between terminals or flights or trying to get to a taxi or more importantly, get to a bathroom, that it becomes quite easy to be part of the flow.

[00:04:00] And it seems to me that there’s so much more to it than just, okay, well, let’s pop up a good looking sign here and we’ll be done.

Yes, it definitely is. It’s certainly and I think that’s my point earlier about the sign kind of being the end product of the artifact that people notice. And if you think about everyday journeys, we’re probably subconsciously reading information from signage, whether it’s a street sign through to catching public transport through, as you say, to go to an airport, you know, [00:04:30] so it does.

I describe what we do to a lot of people as a subject matter that is only about an inch wide, but about 2 miles deep. because of all the things that we need to take into consideration. Obviously, we look at spaces and how they, people can circulate them. We have to understand operational needs from the organisation that’s running that particular space, changes that may happen where sometimes we look at digital technology to try and adapt for, for those sorts of things.

There’s an element of human psychology. I was explaining to someone just earlier [00:05:00] today, the difference between When we’re trying to navigate people through a shopping centre, we’re not necessarily trying to save all their wayfinding problems. We’re trying to help them navigate, but to find dwell time, whereas if you think about a hospital, getting someone to a destination is pretty mission critical normally, or at least, you know, a space where people are always feeling quite tense.

So there is. Lots of layers to consider before you even get into the, you know, the visual realisation of what that is. And of course, within that, there’s also multiple disciplines, [00:05:30] understanding how things are made, that’s the industrial design component, the communication design part, and probably an element of just understanding how to read architecture and how people move those things together.

So referencing back to when I was talking about exhibition design, That’s kind of how, to me, things translate is that, you are, the ability to take all those different disciplines, you’re at this intersection where you need to understand, not only how you communicate, but also how people experience that, linking that thing back to a brand is really critical because then [00:06:00] essentially the experience itself is going to be either positive or negative and how then that relates to your time spent at that, that particular premise under that brand.

So that they, that’s how they come in hand in hand.

That’s fascinating Dominic. I mean. You know, while you’re saying this, my mind’s going a million miles an hour and what you said about it being about an inch wide and a mile deep is, is really resonates with me. I had a conversation with Rich Hawker, a couple of weeks ago, who’s a international specialist in customer [00:06:30] experience design.

And he talks about the idea that, you know, when you, Design a customer experience. You’re also designing the emotions that are evoked as part of that process. And I imagine that,understanding, as you said, the psychology and the emotions that, a client is looking to help their customers experience to make a building, a facility,some infrastructure work for the people who are in it is an essential part of that sort of thinking process as [00:07:00] well.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s it’s just understanding the context of those environments, because, as I said, they will differ in terms of their purpose. But it really, you know, sometimes if we do our job really well, you won’t notice our work, which is the paradox,

it becomes part of your flow of movement.

It’s only when you have pain points that people will start to recognise that there is a problem. And then that’s when, you know, the complaints will flow or that experience is less enjoyable versus when you can [00:07:30] actually experience something seamlessly. And likewise, I think the fun that we used to have in designing temporary exhibitions, where you could be a bit more adventurous, the theatrical part of creating experience, which is a lot.

More challenging to do say in a permanent space like a shopping center, but that I think the opportunity to also delight people and do things that are unexpected. can be a part of all of that.

Hmm. Hmm. Fantastic. And really fascinating. So how did you go about birthing this [00:08:00] successful business diadem?

So, I met my current partners at a, at a previous company, the company I mentioned earlier where we were working for Telstra. So we, we worked together for a number of years and got to know each other quite well. And I guess as we were getting to the end of the millennia, there was, We’re getting itchy feet thinking about, you know, is there an opportunity for us to take this to another level because that organisation was quite limited in specific requirements of what it did.

so the three of us, so Adrian and John, [00:08:30] we, we kind of started talking about it and recognise that we sort of had the ingredients of the DNA because the three of us are very different. We’ve got different backgrounds professionally. That they were complimentary enough for us to be able to go off and do all the things we needed in terms of sales, marketing, design, and ultimately being able to procure it.

So, maybe there was serendipity in knowing each other for a while before we got, got together. And then, yeah, in 2000, we took the leap. So there was an opportunity to work on a large [00:09:00] rebrand at the time that came our way for Origin Energy when they de merged from Boral. And, um, we were just off and running.

It was funny because our first day in the office that we were subleasing from an engineering firm, I think they looked at us and thought, geez, I wonder if they’ll even be able to cut the first weeks, the first month’s rent, which, you know, obviously we did, but within three months, we actually outgrew them and had to relocate office.

So, yeah, I think it was, that was, I’m not a big believer in good luck, but I think it was good fortune [00:09:30] that the three of us were together at the right time. As I say, I had those complimentary skills to sort of take it to where we did. We had a very bold vision at the time of growing a business to maybe 12 people.

We saw that there was an opportunity to continue to do what we did. But I think we managed to get to 12 by The within inside the first year, and then from there, it was just continuous growth, which was was great. And that obviously presented all sorts of challenges along the way, which I’m sure we’ll talk about.

Yeah. Yeah. And,[00:10:00] and you talk about your, your business partners, you know, the, the business world, is littered with partnerships that have. Either turn sour over the period of time or they’ve really struggled, uh, because of values alignment or because of their own, individual and very separate personal needs or, from time to time.

but, uh, from all the conversations we’ve had over the last few years, I’ve, I’ve gotten the feeling that you’re involved in a high performing [00:10:30] partner, which is mutually respectful. So can you tell me a bit about, uh, what were some of the challenges that you found in, in being in a partnership?

Yeah, and look, that’s a question I often get asked, because we always joke that our partnership is probably outlived most marriages. the it’s like everything. I think that communication is is vital. So being able to in any early days, I mean, I suppose if I could go back there first.being on the same page was a lot easier in the beginning because the three of us were all in.

And so there was [00:11:00] never, you know, any objection to what we were attempting to do. And as I said, because the three of us had different disciplines and backgrounds, we’re able to tackle a project and bring to each project an element of, it was almost like the passing of the baton in terms of how a project was evolved.

So I think in terms of the partnership, that was really good. Three is a good number. Like I think in terms of whenever there was. Some level of disagreement, you know, three is easier to negotiate compared to two, because I guess that would enable someone to [00:11:30] talk some sense into the other person and you would certainly bring that around.

and I think it’s only over time is perhaps our personal lives, you know, starting with young families and all the pressures that started to come into it. That, you know, they were days where probably some of the external pressures were having an impact on things internally. But ultimately, we had a good understanding of each other.

And, you know, I suppose, recognizing each other’s character. And when someone felt like they needed more of the spotlight, you know, we knew that intuitively. So there was a bit of flow [00:12:00] in the way we would. I guess, perform our roles within the business and and in front of clients for that matter. and calling upon each other when we needed to do that.

And we still do that to this day. I guess it’s different now because we’ve got a wider leadership team that are involved in a lot of the running of the company. But I’d say, yeah, sort of reflecting on it. It’s the Sort of having the right dynamic. I mean, the three of us aren’t three accountants or three architects or three of the same.

I think there was no competitive tension between us ever. It was always [00:12:30] because we had a common goal of trying to deliver it. Probably where things started to get a little bit interesting when we got to probably the end of year two. It sort of became obvious that, you know, the organisation was now, well, I think we were probably hitting 20 staff and, you know, there wasn’t a clear cut leader between the three of us, it was a matter of whoever was running a project and so the decision to sort of step into an MD role, that, that certainly presented a bit of a challenge for us because it was a question of, you know, which, we didn’t [00:13:00] believe co sharing that role was the right thing to do and, I guess ultimately we decided that I should take on that position, which was, you know, a double edged sword because on the one hand was that obviously meant that I needed to step away from my design responsibilities because by this stage, we already had a young design team with some very capable people.

Arguably, probably better than me. but also then the requirement for me to have to upskill into learning about the next stages of the business, because obviously we’ve gotten as far as we [00:13:30] had with some fundamentals and a lot of, I guess, just intuitive decision making. But as the team was growing and the needs for running a business, As opposed to running projects.

And now I think that was the tipping point. Typically, I think in those first couple of years, you know, it was the project that was the driver. And every decision was around what was best for the project. But I guess by the time we got to that year two, year three, we needed to start thinking more about the future and the business.

And more importantly, the people who are hiring and how to sort of [00:14:00] support them to support us. So that that probably was one of the most important Challenging times as far as the partnership’s concerned because of the transition in our dynamics.

Yeah, so, I think that, You know, not uncommon, particularly in a project space business where, you know, you can form a business out of a collection of projects, but not treat it as a business. except for when you’re just looking at the sort of the basic business infrastructure of anything from marketing to HR to payroll to, to [00:14:30] office space or factory space and so on.

And, and it’s an essential responsibility to have the fabric of the business actually, again, a bit like your signage. you don’t notice it, except for when it’s stuffed up. So, but again, that would have been quite an interesting change in the dynamic of the partnership.

So what do you see as being the things that, that are essential to make a partnership work?

Yeah, and it’s, I think that, just having a really clear mission [00:15:00] of what binds you together. So even though you may have a different point of view, and as I said in our case, because often we were making all our decisions around. And I should point out some of these projects very, very large in scale.

So they would take anywhere up to 12 to 18 months to deliver. So a lot of that kind of decision making and perhaps what used to bind us was the fact that we would agree this is what needed to happen for the project. So, I think what we started to learn very quickly was we needed to step out of that and start thinking about how is this serving us and [00:15:30] ultimately.

What do we believe in? And how do we kind of take this business forward? Because if we don’t have common ground, neither will our staff. So I think, you know, we’re sort of running at different speeds around coming to that realisation that, you know, as as a partnership and as the business were growing, you know, sometimes it was out of sync.

So I think definitely spending time together. Whether it was, you know, doing some off sites. We learned early on as well. It was very helpful to bring in third parties to help. you know, just to talk about [00:16:00] things more openly and also for the 3 of us to be challenged with questions that not that we were afraid to ask of ourselves, but probably weren’t even thinking because because of where our focus was.

So I think in some ways over the history of that. And I think that’s the reason why I think we’re not getting to those early days where we were starting to formulate more, because I might add we our vision really was fulfilled pretty quickly. And we weren’t stretching ourselves enough. So I think bringing in those people over time.

And as we’ll probably talk about later with [00:16:30] the CEO masterclass, you know, it’s the. Kind of sometimes you do need that outside perspective to kind of stretch you and get you on a journey, which then gives you something for the three of us in our case to to then refocus on and it is resetting, you know, I think it was like a lot of relationships, perhaps, you know, there are points and there are milestones and there are things where you need to kind of go.

Okay, now let’s reset a new horizon. And what does that mean for each of us? So, yeah, it’s a combination of just keeping that [00:17:00] constant communication. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But more importantly, I think being able to, commit to those things. So whether it’s writing those down in a document, and as I say, that’s where it’s helpful when you’ve got, you know, a third party person that’s able to, help facilitate and just challenge you so that then you kind of reset, where your path is.

Mutual respect. You mentioned that before. I think that’s something that is vital. And depending on the nature of anyone’s partnership in a business, I think, recognizing that everyone can contribute different things in different ways. And I [00:17:30] really, I value the fact that the guys felt that I could take on the role of MD.

It was a poison chalice, I suspect, but, ultimately, you know, that respect that they showed me, obviously, I, I mutually respect the fact that they’re great at what they do and that they’re vital to the business and how things progress and to create the space for them to do that rather than to perhaps overshadow it.

So, yeah, they’re probably the key things I would suggest.

Yeah. And as with any partnership, business or marital or other [00:18:00] interpersonal relationship, I think, you know, one of the, one of the things that, is absolutely essential is actually. Making time to work at making the partnership work. These partnerships don’t, over the longer term, they don’t actually work unless you put a lot of effort into them.

and perhaps having those offsides, perhaps carving out time periodically to work on your direction together or issues together, give you a chance to actually [00:18:30] recognise each other and reset, as you mentioned. but also that it’s also the little things that happen from day to day, of the touch bases and, and, perhaps, the hallway conversations or just checking in on the way home is probably often happens.

I’m sure.

Yep.

Yeah. So tell me a bit more about how did you grow the diadem? What have been some of the key challenges and maybe some of the stuff ups along the way. And what have you learned from them? It’s a very big question, I know

yeah umm [00:19:00] when I guess reflecting on our journey to this point, it’s hard to recall perhaps some of those earlier stuff ups. I’m sure there were plenty. it’s interesting. I think the growth and probably the best thing we ever did was really stretch ourselves to take the business overseas. I mean, the market for what we do here in Australia is not very big.

because there are obviously just the scale and the population of Australia. Opening in New Zealand in 2009, which seemed like an absolute epic [00:19:30] stretch, it kind of, and the same when we went to Hong Kong in 2016, at each point, there was, it was a point of inflection because essentially two things were happening, we were kind of going back to basics at each time, kind of going, this is Even though we’re doing the same, we’re starting a new business in a new country and we need to learn everything all over again and how they operate in that particular region.

New Zealand, perhaps not as much as perhaps when we went to Asia, but they were, I think, two points [00:20:00] in history that I can think that were really times when we genuinely had to sit down and again, perhaps just going back to the partnership. They were the things that were almost. Reliving when we first started the business and perhaps I mean, the three of us are entrepreneurs at heart, and I think that the idea of building something new and the thrill and the fear and the risk and the investing and all those things that we would have been doing back in 2000 and 2001, perhaps because we were reliving those moments, [00:20:30] and going back to the basics as I’ve Put it, really drivers.

And I think the growth was happening underneath our feet as that was happening. so our focus wasn’t so much that we wanted to grow in scale, but obviously we wanted to build a business that had, you know, it was viable and sustainable into the future. Obviously, getting some market expansion was going to give us the opportunity to grow a bigger footprint.

But I think when I reflect on it now. It’s probably that that driver and that excitement that came with starting a new venture Assuming that things were the same [00:21:00] when we went to Asia assuming things that were very similar to Australia very big mistake You know, we had some fast lessons on the ground while we were over there And but again, what was really enriching the business was if you like, you know There’s a lot of talk about cultural diversity.

Well, I think we experienced that firsthand as we were recruiting people locally in New Zealand, but also in Hong Kong. it just Brings a whole new dimension, and I remember even talking to some of that, senior design team looking at projects through a different [00:21:30] lens as an outsider, as opposed to doing something in a country where you perhaps have more of an understanding of how culturally things work.

In terms of the design response, they had to spend more time learning, the local culture and how things might translate, because it’s really interesting in a wayfinding perspective, the way things are described where in countries where dual language is expected as a standard, suddenly, you know, you’re just thinking about things in a different way, or if it was about, Doing something that was a little bit more in the [00:22:00] aesthetic treatment being able to sit down and research that culture in the same way that we probably do more so now here in Australia when it comes to incorporating indigenous design.

You know, it is putting on that outsider’s lens and learning. And I think we were doing that right across the business and even even understanding how supplier relationships worked. It was quite different. They were the lessons that I, I still hear today with some of our team that are discussed where, you know.

the kind of referencing those learnings and they’re applying it to work.

The interesting [00:22:30] thing is it’s actually made us better here in our own local markets as much as it was about going offshore and doing those things. And it stretched us at every level, whether it was, you know, dealing with foreign currency and understanding how to deal with that. And, The, uh, overseas government bodies, taxation, et cetera, as well as just supply chain and how things ran, just being stretched and stretching and everyone going on that journey of being uncomfortable about what we were doing.

And it reminds me, [00:23:00] it’s sort of another point, I guess, when I was thinking about this, that, you know, in those first few years when we were building Diadem and the growth was relatively big to a small scale, Everyone was just driven by that. They could see. I guess everything the hunger that we had to grow, I could see the pressure we were under to be able to win that next project to keep everybody employed.

So there was a sense of ownership and a realisation of what it was like to be part of a, you know, a start a business that was starting [00:23:30] out. And that changes as you grow. And I think that then becomes, you know, people don’t necessarily understand the risks and what it takes to get a business off the ground.

The great thing is we still have. Quite a few people in our team, who remember those days and they’re the ones not us that are genuinely sharing that, with the guys sort of suggesting that, you know, you should realise how lucky we are to be able to still work in an organisation of our scale that it’s gone through those hard yards and not to take those things for granted.

So, yeah, [00:24:00] there’s probably those various lessons along the way about, sort of the, yeah. The excitement of growth, the pursuit at the partnership level for new beginnings and what that looked like and going back to those first principles. I guess what I’m saying is there’s an element of staying humble, you know, and I think that’s those points that when we stayed humble was when we were really, experiencing that, you know, that change and that feeling uncomfortable.

But that was the stuff that was building our resilience. And I think To be honest, to be here 25 years [00:24:30] later, it is, it is all those things combined that give you a business that can continue to, you know, carry on.

Absolutely. And I, I sort of think about it. I mean, you’re how many staff now?

We’re, uh, 82,

82 and how many locations?

five offices, so four here in Australia and an office in Auckland.

Are you looking to pinpoint the areas that will make the biggest impact on your business? Check out the Organisation Performance and Value Diagnostic. [00:25:00] This powerful tool lets you evaluate your business on multiple facets and provides email reminders to keep you on track head over to #CriticalFewActions™.

com. au and get started now.

Yeah. So, know, when I look at medium sized businesses like yours, you know, there’s There’s a couple of inflection points you start to see, you know, when, when a business gets to 10 staff, it’s about as many people as one person can keep a direct handle on almost directly. Then once they go [00:25:30] from 10 to 20, they go through a different inflection point because all of a sudden there’s not so much another layer Of,leadership, because that’s not necessary as such, but it certainly is, it puts a challenge on communication at that point. When you then go from 20 to 40 or 20 to 80, you also then have a couple of other inflection points. How did you handle that from the point of view of developing your leadership team and with the change in your size and maturity?

Yeah.

and that’s, and that’s all very good. In [00:26:00] fact, I think 30 for some reason stuck out as a real pain point, because a lot of things just changed at that point. partly due to the, Nature of our business in terms of, being project driven meant that we started to sort of set up more of a leadership team around the ability to deliver projects and obviously leading projects.

Once we started adding geography, and that was the thing I think once we got to 30 people were already in Sydney and looking to expand, the complexity also became [00:26:30] geographic in terms of leadership. So, yeah, I guess. As we were recruiting and putting people on, and we could see and identify people that probably had more of a people management as well as kind of technical, to be able to, to lead those projects.

We started to make those appointments and spending a lot of time with those people and my partners in particular, because they were still very and still are to this day, very active in that client space, I guess would be working [00:27:00] alongside those team leaders. And, And I, you know, so that, so I suppose it’s, it’s rather organic in its evolution where we are today is a much more structured management team where we’ve got people that are given all the sort of typical responsibilities from general manager to HR and, all those other areas, finance, of course.

So organically, as we’re building brick by brick, we’re trying to identify people that would be right for the role. I’ve always made it my priority [00:27:30] to be involved in recruitment. So, despite the fact that perhaps being advised otherwise, but I think it’s proven to be quite a successful ingredient to be able to sit with people and get an understanding of who they are and what they’re.

Real strengths are, you know, people that are quite authentic. So baseline capabilities are given. As is often said, you know, attitude is is important because skills can be trained. So I think thinking about that and being able to sort of. [00:28:00] Identify people that could move into those roles was really a big part of my involvement in the recruiting process.

I think it’s also that as a business of our scale, we don’t necessarily need to keep people in boxes. So I’ve found over the years that we have had some people, that have moved into, leadership roles who. We’re people that weren’t necessarily who started out that way they kind of grew and evolved because we were constantly giving them opportunities and I think that’s the thing is, it’s a little bit of a testing ground where you might sort of see a [00:28:30] spark in an individual or if you give them an opportunity to really shine.

An environment where we continue to this day to do that. And so we’re always pushing people to go beyond the job description and sort of think, you know, here’s a, here’s a project that’s got all the things we spoke about in your performance review and the things that you’re aspiring to. Let’s, let’s give it a crack.

Let’s see if you can stretch yourself outside of that. you know, the bounds of your current position and see if we can start seeing you evolving to that role. So, yeah, I think. a degree of freedom to [00:29:00] be able to autonomy, perhaps is a better word to kind of allow people to push themselves

Yeah.

has resulted in in quite a number of people in leadership roles now in the team, and I think because others see that they’ve seen their growth rather than recruiting someone senior from the outside and it’s coming from within it.

Also, there’s a degree of respect that goes with that because they’ve proven themselves not just to us, but to the to the rest of the team.

Yeah, I think you’re right. I think you’d make actually a very important point there, [00:29:30] Dominic. You know, from, from what you’ve just said, I, I think one of the things that, that your involvement in the recruitment process, whether it’s conscious or unconscious, and I’m sure it’s conscious, is that you’re looking for a values alignment, which is actually a personality trait.

It’s actually a set of beliefs. It’s a way a person actually, not just presents themselves, but it’s the way they wake up and they go to work. Then there’s an issue around aptitude, which, as you said, is a given that they’re technically competent, but even more important [00:30:00] is the question of what their attitude is.

And so if you’ve got values alignment and you’ve got attitude, then what that allows you to do is to bring somebody into the organisation so they can fit in and actually do a really meaningful job. But because of their values, alignment and their attitude, you can then actually offer them opportunities or push them to take opportunities, perhaps well and truly outside their comfort zone, because you have an innate sense and experience to back it up of knowing that they can be challenged in, [00:30:30] in a certain way, or to take on something that, that perhaps they don’t see themselves that they can do, but, but you have, you know, 25 years of experience, to judge that, You think that they’re going to be pretty good in particularly if they get some support.

yeah. And if I can expand on that, that’s spot on. I think where we are today and certainly where I see I add the most value to the organisation is really focusing on that. I think we’ve created an environment now where. within the [00:31:00] project space that obviously we, we operate in that we’re always looking.

We’re not just allocating resources now to deliver the work we’re thinking about exactly what you were just describing an alignment between presumably their capability and their aspiration where they can stretch and grow. And that that probably speaks to our retention. So it’s one of the things that, you know, we’ve got an average retention of 8.

5 years here. We’ve got an over of less than 3 percent over the last 3 years. [00:31:30] So keeping people here isn’t an issue. And more importantly, I think it is for these reasons that, you know, again, we’re not. The largest of organisations being an SME, there’s only so much, growth in a, in a kind of a corporate ladder to climb.

But in terms of the breadth of experience and the opportunities that people get, by being able to stretch themselves and do the things they wouldn’t otherwise be able to do. And that’s, I suppose, our employee value proposition is about giving people the opportunity to achieve. A career’s best work that they wouldn’t [00:32:00] otherwise be able to achieve elsewhere, particularly if they don’t have a CV to begin with that looks like someone that is on a stellar pathway.

And I think it is a little bit like, you know, trying to find a few of the diamonds with in the rough, and, and allowing themselves and, and also to your point. is for them to see what we see, because sometimes, I mean, having done this for long enough, we can kind of see emerging talent in a way that perhaps some people can’t because they’ve not done what we’ve done.

And perhaps in the same [00:32:30] way that I suspect my former employer at that organisation I mentioned earlier, saw in me the opportunity to grow and do things that The organisation at the time wasn’t doing but saw the skills that I possessed to be able to grow a team around what I was interested in. I think I’ve taken a lesson from that as well to sort of say, you know, it’s not just about and certainly today is not just about we can kind of paint a vision, but it’s kind of a case of how can staff propel us to [00:33:00] get there.

Yeah, very much. So, and you know, one of the things that, that I see actually with the business owners as successful business owners that I work, work with, is that, often I can say in them what they can’t say.my job is, and I think actually all CEOs is. A job is to actually help them see and be the best that they can be.

and, you know, in some, another way to say that is help them get out of their own way. just [00:33:30] on that, from a leadership team development perspective, Dominic, you haven’t just lucked into having a great leadership team.you haven’t just lucked into finding, people who were, born leaders, who could actually design something and run a project profitably.

so how have you gone about,what I suspect is, is quite a conscious and deliberate process of, helping develop the leaders of the future, and supporting them in their own growth.

yeah, that, [00:34:00] again with with limited resources to do that, I guess again, it comes back to just spending a lot of conscious time around that particular subject. So,a lot of, one on one. So I suppose there’s an element of mentoring. There’s an element of kind of career path mapping. we obviously work with external coaches and so forth.

But again, there’s perhaps more informal than formal in this process where over the years has just been a case of, in the [00:34:30] same way that I suppose the three of us used to meet regularly and talk about, how we might approach a project that in the future, you know, what is it that we’re pursuing as a, as an organisation, it was probably involving or it is involving those people in those sorts of discussions.

Um,there’s also an element of making it personal, you know, getting to know them and their background. Whatever it is, their family situation, their personal situations and what their aspirations are and being able to help to support those aspirations as [00:35:00] well. We’ve had people leave the organisation and then return.

So the conversations, you know what they look like. In fact, two very key leaders in our business have spent some time away and then returned. And it’s almost like having a sabbatical where they’ve had the opportunity to step away. And get broader perspective, perhaps, you know, have other experiences to then be able to come back and actually understand the opportunity that lies here and then they’re propagating that same message [00:35:30] to their colleagues.

So, Yeah.

it’s, it’s happening organically on a number of levels where I think, you know, it’s just. Being able to continuously have a conversation about their aspirations and when necessary, I guess, guiding them into improving and taking on the challenges that we’ve put in front of them. I think that’s a big part of it too, is again, not being too specific on role responsibilities.

Is to be able to stretch their more senior people and be able to take on [00:36:00] greater, you know, just greater responsibility and greater risk. I guess it goes with that. And ultimately, this is all layered with trust. You know, it’s sort of kind of asking them to tell us what, what they’re comfortable doing and how they might manage things.

I mean, a great example, of course, would be over the past couple of years with the pandemic and the business being pretty, like all businesses being flipped on its head, working from home, you know, remote teams. we were sort of already a little bit accustomed to that because of the travel and the work that we were doing in the project plan, [00:36:30] but I think.

The people that were charged with leadership roles or the new people that have merged into those roles are the ones that have proven to be able to work in that more agile environment. so, Yeah. there’s probably many smaller contributing factors rather than a sit down and, you know, a designed curated leadership course that has taken them to where they are.

Yeah. And also, I guess, you know, the proof is, of the pudding is in the eating. I don’t know if I got the, um, the analogy right there, but, the reality is you’re an 80 person [00:37:00] business that’s spread across at least six locations. potentially across three disciplines that can then be integrated.

You know, you’ve, you’ve grown effectively, a whole series of practice leaders, even just from a geography perspective, but I suspect also from a service perspective, and you’ve done that repeatedly over a 25 year period. That’s no mean feat. and as you said, you know, there’s an element of trust.

There’s a significant element of trust, but there’s also,a big [00:37:30] element of,deep, authentic communication that goes with being able to empower people to lead their way.

Yeah, and probably empowering is the key word because it’s done deliberately. And I think that’s ultimately. What we’re communicating to the organisation is really that, it comes back to, as I said before, our employee value proposition about creating an opportunity in the environment where people can do their best work and that, that applies to everyone from the youngest to the most [00:38:00] senior.

and so I think it goes both ways, like we also, I guess, not just from ourselves, our, our staff, who are probably seeking that advice are more likely today to be seeking that advice from our leadership team rather than us as principals or as owners. and that, that’s really rewarding to know. So

That’s a sign of success, isn’t it, Dominic?

Yeah.

absolutely. I guess what I’m saying is that once you kind of create that environment and empower everybody and that they feel comfortable to be able [00:38:30] to make those decisions to take that autonomy, which of course, people will take to different levels naturally. Um,Yeah. I think, you know, the piece that probably sits above all of this, I guess we haven’t touched on is, is culture.

And I think. All the things I’m describing kind of feed into this is that ultimately, creating a culture where people feel like it’s their, their, um, just as much their business as it is ours. And if they’re contributing to our success, our success is, is [00:39:00] everybody’s success. So. That empowerment is kind of feeding into that and then, like I said, in terms of where people are leaning, and relying on each other to get themselves, through projects has kind of become quite a dispersed or, uh, democratised is not the right word, but I guess I’m looking for a way of describing a place where people can just talk to each other and find ways.

There’s always pressure. We always are facing deadlines. So I’m not making it sound like this is a very easy. Place to work. In fact, sometimes it’s quite the opposite. [00:39:30] There’s a lot of sparks flying because we’re obviously trying to push to meet deadlines on on many fronts. and so people are competing for resources to get what they need done.

but I think at the end of the day, as we witness, um, whenever we get together, so we have an annual conference, that’s perhaps an element that we haven’t touched on either. But, we get everybody together once a year, usually in the middle of the year. And it’s an event that’s led by the staff. They’re the ones that are organizing and, and part of the, uh, the creation [00:40:00] and, delivery of content and what they’re presenting, and that sense of pride that comes, it’s almost like that.

You know, post season event when, you know, everything’s done and dusted and we’re all sitting around having a beer and a chat and just talking about and celebrating the wins that we’ve had, you know, that, that is genuinely something that everyone feels they can contribute and be part of. And so to your point about empowerment, I think we just think about that at every layer, at every level, and that seems to be working.

So I think. Which is what [00:40:30] defines our culture really is just that, you know, there’s a degree of, everyone, as I said before, has a sense of ownership about the work that we do. So it’s good.

Yeah. Look, I, I think you make a couple of really important points there and, you know, there’s,There’s a difference between a hierarchical and a democratic organisation and also an autocratic organisation as opposed to, an empowered, and self organizing,organisation where teams, virtual teams come together, disperse, come together and disperse in different forms, depending on [00:41:00] what, what the clients and the projects require.

but you can’t do that just on your own. Willy nilly, the culture is such an essential part of that process. And I think that creating a culture is not something that happens because you put something up on a three on the wall in the reception and you get people to back into it as I walk into work, if they come into work at all, it’s actually top down and a bottom up thing.

You know, you build culture based on how the leaders and the founders actually treat each other and treat their [00:41:30] employees by the. Macon, you, you build culture, one employee, one recruit at a time, because you’re actually recruiting for values, personality types, their differences, their diversity, but also their common thread.

and that is an essential part of having effective leadership teams and having an effective organisation. When you think now about, Diadem, what do you think were the game changes that [00:42:00] really changed the business for the better?

Yeah.

I think, it’s probably what I touched on earlier. I think the, the push into new markets. At the time that we did them. So for instance, in 2009, 2010, when the GFC hit, and we were obviously affected by that, but there was an opportunity for us to go to New Zealand. Like I said, it was kind of hitting a reset.

just once again, all in back to basics. How do we, how could we take this opportunity and make it work in the [00:42:30] face of, you know, strong headwinds in terms of the economy? Um.I think it’s just sometimes it’s just those those pivotal moments when you’re backing yourself, you know, and I think obviously that’s harder to do today as the business has grown, but, back in the day, they were those kind of not so much that it was a make or break, but it was almost like reinforcing that, you know, we had.

All the things we needed to be able to take a chance and just stretch ourselves and be prepared [00:43:00] to kind of endure a little bit of pain if necessary. But the end game or the end goal was going to be that we would be better and that would obviously enhance the business. And I think. That, probably that combined with then, a lot of change in myself.

I mean, I think I started to realise also at the point is as we were starting to get scale that the things that we’re now talking about that. 10 years ago, perhaps 15 years ago.I was still learning. So understanding the impact of culture, for [00:43:30] instance, and one of my favorite sayings or quotes, Peter Drucker’s, you know, culture is strategy for breakfast.

You know, I, I live and die by that. I think it’s so important. There’s more context to that. I don’t think you just go. We can have a great culture and succeed. You still need a good strategy. And I think you need to align people to understand what strategy is for your organisation. And it’s interesting what you mentioned before in in this business and in our building, you won’t find a single value statement on the wall anyway.

In fact, our [00:44:00] walls are very blank, but what I’ve heard people say is when they come into it that our office, they can feel something different. And I think what they’re describing is they’re feeling our culture. that’s something that, for me, I guess, started to come into my conscious probably, you know, 10 years or so ago, where I realised that all the things we’re talking about today about being able to empower people and to be able to kind of create that shared ownership and that, the fact that we [00:44:30] have to bring teams together and, they’re, they’re virtual and then they move away, I think going to New Zealand really.

sort of brought all this to life. So I think that was probably one of the most pivotal points. And then if that wasn’t enough pain when we went repeated that again in 2016 in Hong Kong, you know, once again, it was just stretching. So, Yeah.

I think It the key lessons were when we fail to do that in earlier days, so I can’t point to an example, but there were probably times when our [00:45:00] focus was on the doing, and in time, we’ve obviously learned that, you know, it’s about human beings, not the doing part, and it’s about how we can motivate them and allow them to, you know, take that initiative because, you know, it’s pretty obvious talking about it.

Now, if you can get 82 people where the number is, you know, To buy in, lean in, use their discretionary effort and just. Do what is right and what is necessary at any point in time, then the decision making needs to come from a place [00:45:30] that we all have together, which is, which is our culture to the value based system.

And most importantly, today, it’s an understanding of what our purpose is. I mean, that was obviously probably the other big thing in 2020, just before the pandemic came about sitting down and unpacking where we’ve gotten to and trying to disassociate. The products and the outcomes of the things that we were doing and realizing that what we were really about was actually our work was bringing people together of their work was about, you know, [00:46:00] connecting people to the places that we worked in, whether it was getting people through an airport to meet a loved one.

Getting someone off to a hospital, a brand that was something that, you know, people within an organisation in a corporate office celebrated because they were proud to be part of that organisation. It was, it was that shift in mindset from the artifact, if you like, to the value of our work, that was a massive turning point. So, and it’s interesting, I think it’s just maturity. you know You got to be ready as, as leaders, I [00:46:30] suppose, who understand and. Inject that into the business and there’s a right and a wrong time for those things to happen. I think for us, maybe we too long to realise that. But, you know, that’s why we stand here today.

And I think the value that people see as in our own stuff and our clients in the work that we do is sort of a result of this evolution as we’ve become more mature and more. Aware of, the value that we bring. So,

Hmm.

yeah,

And I guess that, [00:47:00] that also raises a question. And you sort of mentioned or touched on this slightly before, you know, how does Dominic Russo develop himself and,who’s developing you?

that’s a work in progress, John.

Absolutely. It is, it is for all of us.

I look, I again, I think, you know, that fateful meeting that we had in the early days and making that decision. and I think, as I said, it was somewhere around 2003 or something like that.I haven’t stopped learning. Like, I, I think what it [00:47:30] did, it threw me into this sort of perpetual space where I have to constantly challenge myself to better myself with the view that.

I’m learning subject matter that I didn’t train, you know, I’m hoping that I’ll have some sort of honorary MBA by the end of this, um, but, you know, it is going through all those lessons as, along the way, you do make some mistakes, but hopefully, progresses the people, you know, I lean very heavily on my partner, my wife, she’s just You know, always there for me to [00:48:00] sound things through, especially when it’s to do with, with people, over the years, I’ve had various mentors and coaches, who I’ve engaged with and, and then, yeah, always trying to be part of groups where I can learn from.

whether it’s various CEO groups, the CEO master class in yourself, you know, and particularly the timing of when you and I met, and getting through the whole pandemic period was priceless, I have to say. So, I think again, it’s just. Trying to draw upon the people that are in [00:48:30] front of me at the time to help me with that stage of development.

right now, it’s kind of thinking about how we take the business into this next chapter.Um, we’re very much focused about sustainability and what’s at the core. But with that, I’m also thinking environmental sustainability, but also the sustainability of the business itself. Because it’s that next step of succession that we’re looking for.

And we’re looking for that next round of leaders that are emerging through the business, and how we go about doing that. But yeah, [00:49:00] so It’s I suppose there’s, it’s, it’s, as I say, it’s a work in progress and I’ve been looking to a variety of people over time to, to help me, um, with those different stages and those different challenges.

If you really want to kick off your strategic planning and work in a supportive environment with other CEOs and leaders, the CEO Masterclass in Strategic Planning and Implementation is for you. This 10 month small group course helps you craft your [00:49:30] strategic plan, present it to a group of peer investors, and develop a habit of monthly implementation.

Our waitlist is open now at www.CriticalFewActions.com.au

It’s definitely a life’s journey, Dominic. so where do you see the business going from here?

Yeah. our focus, I think that there’s a couple of things that are emerging. I mean, obviously, the world is changing pretty rapidly around us and our services are becoming interestingly [00:50:00] more valuable. if we really believe in what we do, and so, I’ve said a vision or a mission, if you like, that I’m describing as a, a net positive, program where we’re wanting to be agents of change.

We want to take everything that we’ve. We’ve built all the knowledge that we have all the skills that we have available to ourselves and help clients and the supply chain be able to come together and deliver much more [00:50:30] sustainable solutions. Unfortunately, working in the built environment, we’re aligned with construction industry.

It is one of the biggest contributors to, carbon emissions in the world. I think it ranks somewhere around 40 percent of global carbon emissions come from the industry that we’re aligned in. we’ve all got to do our part. And I think it’s not just, a marketing ploy or a rally. It’s something that I genuinely believe in and I know a lot of our staff believe in also. We have the platform and what we’ve got to do is be able to engage [00:51:00] with Other collaborators that we can work with so that we can take on board, you know, different, different tools, different technology, and perhaps even different types of people to join the organisation so that we can just look at circular economy solutions will be able to reduce the carbon footprint of a lot of our clients because the way we’ve done things in the past as a society, obviously is not sustainable, but I think everybody’s looking for answers right now.

How do we do that differently? So in our world, it’s very much about [00:51:30] how we take. As I said, all the assets that we have and the knowledge and the information to be able to be a real contributor and an industry changer. And I, I guess that’s where, sort of borrowing from Paul, Paul Polman from, um, Unilever, former CEO who sort of has published a great book on this concept of net positive is where I’m drawing inspiration and sort of paving away where we’re doing that.

We’ve had some green shoots already where we’ve had two clients come on board that we’ve also, what’s interesting is. The nature of the [00:52:00] relationships with clients have changed. They’re becoming more, it’s genuinely partnering to try and find something that there’s not necessarily a prescribed solution for.

So you can imagine a client that’s going to engage you on a multi million dollar project without a confirmed outcome is a big risk. And to be able to be given the opportunity to work together with them to do that is really, it’s a great privilege, but I think it’s something that, you know, if we really embody this, this purpose [00:52:30] and kind of figure out how we might be able to get on that journey, I see that that’s going to create all sorts of opportunities for our staff, present and future.

I think we’re going to attract a lot of people that are keen and I think. The younger generation are definitely very client conscious, more so than the older. And I think being able to provide that environment, all the things we talked about. So all these building blocks of creating a space where we’ve got people who are empowered, the platform, the geographic spread of our offices, the luxury of the [00:53:00] client portfolio that we have.

Who hopefully will turn to our services very soon because of mandatory reporting and the changes that are coming about. I just see that these are all the things that are going to turbocharge the business into a trajectory that, you know, at the moment feels a bit, unachievable, but I think in the same way, when we first stepped on that flight to Hong Kong to figure out, you know, where do we open an office and how do we do it?

This is, this is the metaphor where I think we’re taking. All of those lessons and all of those, points of [00:53:30] inflection and belief to kind of go. Can we can’t we? Yes.

we can. We’ve done it before and we will do it. And it’s just being able to sort of take that attitude and all the staff that have witnessed that to kind of take this next mission into our future.

Having said all of that. It’s also doing it with a new set of leaders that will be able to kind of deliver on this in the future as well. So, Yeah.

it’s very exciting. It’s interesting. It’s just the more I think about it. It’s just that, it’s taking what we [00:54:00] built. It’s almost like we’ve been building and flying as we go the aircraft and now we’re ready to kind of go into another level of altitude.

And I think that’s, that’s really exciting for me and hopefully everybody in the organisation.

Fantastic. Yeah. Look, I think, I think you’re right. It, you’ve been building up to this for some time, but now there is the opportunity, but also the responsibility, for you to pursue this

with your clients and, lead the clients in this process, as you partner with [00:54:30] them. So, yes.

just to jump in. It also, I think, you know, I, I don’t like the idea of just resting it. This sort of proves the point that I’ve made a few times with the staff that, you know, we’re not about profit first. It’s about people first and, and doing something with purpose. And I think. Profit will follow if you do the right things.

And if you obviously have the systems and the mechanisms to deliver on what we’re, you know, our proposition to our clients. So I think. That [00:55:00] in itself is it, you know, hopefully gives people the belief in the sense that, you know, what we are aiming to do is achievable. And the other thing this time around is stretching 85 people, 84 people’s imagination into what’s possible compared to back in 2000, when there were only 5 people around the table to convince and they were trusting in our vision at the time.

so, you know, that that’s probably the challenge in all of this is being able to kind of really get them to. engage in in what we’re believing is a future [00:55:30] vision as well. But that in itself is going to be scaled to great effect as I suggested.

Yeah. And how exciting is it to contemplate how rich the outcomes, of those conversations can be when you’ve got 80 something incredible minds, who are driven, excited value aligned, complimentary contrasting to be able to actually come help shape the, the, the Shop not only the vision, but the fabric of [00:56:00] Diadem for the future.

Yep.

Absolutely fantastic. So, Dominic, if you were going back in time, and we’ll assume that it’s a few years, and talking to yourself as you were just starting out, what advice would you give young Dominic?

Don’t do it.

I love that.

look, that that is a really, really good question. And I’ve heard other people often being asked this.

I think, you know, the, it would [00:56:30] be basically around, you know, hindsight’s an amazing thing. But I think looking back now, being more relaxed and, just trusting yourself, which is easier said than done at the time.

But. It’s interesting because I would say, trust yourself to get through those challenges because you’re equipped to do it. And I think that’s what we’ve proven, not just myself, but with my partners, that ultimately all the challenges we have faced along the way, financial people, [00:57:00] you know, projects going a little bit pear shaped, we’ve always resolved them.

And I was, I was expressing this to someone recently when we won a very significant project at the end of last year. And, you know, Potentially, rather than being excited, which we were, you know, there was this kind of look of horror. How are we going to do this? And as I said to them, and as I would say to my younger self, don’t stress, you’ve got, you know, all the faculties around you to be able to deliver on this.

So why not take a breath and [00:57:30] enjoy it? And, and yeah, celebrate it.

And I could just imagine your younger self in a highly stressed environment saying, it’s so easy for you to say that

Probably a few other things that we won’t include in this video. Yeah, I

I guess finally, Dominic, you know, this is a conversation that I want to share with, with business owners and CEOs CEOs just like you. And if a CEO is looking to develop their business, [00:58:00] based on your experiences of 25 years with a business that spans multiple geographies, got 80 something staff, based on your experience, what #CriticalFewActions™.

Should perhaps they start doing tomorrow, if they did nothing else.

I think if we speak specifically to founders And, if they’re the sort of people that are entrepreneurial, it’s likely that they’re going to have. Very high energy levels and just as we were and still are very, you know, sort [00:58:30] of jump at any opportunity. So first thing I would say is be disciplined. I think it’s really, really important to, in a world full of distractions, especially today and opportunities and unpredictability, you know, that uncertainty can be problematic rather than opportunity.

And I think. Being adaptable is important. So I think it’s the balance between be disciplined and by that, I mean, obviously doing a lot of market research, understanding what your value proposition is and how that can connect to the marketplace and try and [00:59:00] stick to that. I think. Some of the mistakes we’ve made in the past is trying to be all things to all people and not being true to ourselves and therefore my recommendation about trying to be disciplined.

That is hard to do in the early days when you’re trying to figure out how you’re going to pay next month’s rent, let alone the payroll. But in the long run, it’s definitely it pays to be disciplined and I think you’ll build a better brand.in doing that, so really understanding the market and spending time in that space.

So I think as part [00:59:30] of that disciplined action is to be able to constantly getting that feedback and being around your perspective clients, not necessarily selling to them, but understanding them because the more you can get under their skin. The better you’ll become so it’s kind of, you know, sharpening your axe I think the other thing that we’ve obviously spent a fair bit of time talking about today is really share that purpose andin those founding years of a business, even if you only have a few people around you Getting them to buy in and [01:00:00] understand and believe what it is that you’re trying to achieve is so valuable because I witnessed firsthand the amount of discretionary effort that staff were putting in to building our business at the time and that buying that you get rather than treating staff like they’re just this disposable asset.

You know, they are. Genuinely, some, you know, people that should come along for the ride be rewarded as best you can reward them, but I suppose constantly sharing and communicating that purpose because that will lead to that culture that I was [01:00:30] describing, you know, because you can’t buy culture, you can’t just sort of read a textbook and go, this is the culture we’re going to be and make that decision.

The culture kind of grows over time and it can’t. Yes, you can lead it. But you need the people to be the ones perpetuating it. So, um, they’re probably the sort of the two key main takeaways for me is really around being disciplined, communicate the vision and just focus on getting that culture right.

and part of that, uh, getting the culture right is, [01:01:00] is recruiting into that culture one person at a time.

Oh, absolutely. As they say, higher, slow, fire, fast, you know, it is, it’s true because equally when you don’t have the right people on board, it can be very damaging. And people will lose faith very quickly. So I think, especially today where we are, I will do absolutely anything to protect the culture that we built, the people that are within our organisation, and I think each will do that for each other.

And when [01:01:30] clients sense that, so as I said, when someone comes into our office, they don’t need to look on a wall for a mission statement or for values. They will sense it from our people and I think you know that that really makes me, you know Very proud of when I see those moments or hear about them from from clients.

So it’s Yeah, it’s very rewarding

Yeah, well done. I mean genuinely well done. I mean, 25 years is an extraordinary achievement. 25 years in a high performing, incredibly respectful, [01:02:00] mutually complimentary partnership is rare. and you know, your market is, is not an easy market to compete in. highly competitive, driven by the whims of the construction industry, whims of the economy, whims of government regulation, and across three geographies as well, and multiple states, you know, that is one hell of an achievement that you have all been able to, weather and, and develop.

Dominic, it’s been an [01:02:30] absolute delight sharing your story and your insights. Thank you so much for thinking about it, but also for being so candid.

thanks, John. It’s been a pleasure to walk down memory lane.

Oh, and, and if I may, a question without notice, Dominic, you were one of my first CEO masterclass participants, which I should add is, is an MBA award, uh, certified class. How do you feel that the class changed you?

I think the probably I touched on this a bit earlier is [01:03:00] sort of realizing the impact that I could have because often it’s, you know, when you’re sort of. How do I put this? If you’re constantly thinking about, what lies ahead and not thinking about the people around you and the impact that you’re having.

So, I suppose another way of putting that is, you know, the old expression about working on the business, not in it. There’s another dimension to that, and that is how you can actually, whilst you’re thinking about working on the business, how you’re impacting the business and the people within [01:03:30] it. and because we’re obviously a service provider.

professional services business for us people is everything therefore how we impact them and I think starting to realise when we were going through the, some of the critical few methodology that, you’re the author of John. That’s when I started to sort of see that whilst I had the strategic plans, the execution plans, the, the resources, but it was almost like going through the motions rather than stepping back and understanding actually, well, [01:04:00] how do I make this impact the people that are the ones that are actually having to deliver on it?

So, I suppose it sort of thinking more about, less about being the author of the strategy and more about being the conductor, if you like. that was probably, the biggest lesson of being able to sort of step back from it and kind of go, you know, I’ve got to really communicate this to the point where people not only understand what it is that we’re saying, but more importantly, how we can execute on it and the impact that you have through motivating them.

And [01:04:30] all the things we spoke about earlier around building a culture that will sort of, I guess, empower people to do the work. but doing it emphatically, I guess. So yeah.

Fantastic. Excellent Dominic.

Thanks for listening to the #CriticalFewActions™ podcast. Don’t forget to subscribe and grab the downloadables from the show notes. And if you found this episode helpful, I’d really appreciate it. If you share it with your peers and your time, [01:05:00] stay focused and take action.

The #CriticalFewActions™ podcast, including show notes and links, provides general information only and is not individualised business advice, nor can it be relied upon as such. You must take responsibility for your own advice, decisions and actions.