(EP 32) MTF Belinda Wiggins: How to Build a Business That Thrives Without You (And Sells for More)

Welcome to the critical few actions to improve your business podcast. I’m John Downs and I’m here to help you cut through the overwhelm and prioritize what matters most to improve your business. Let’s get started and discover the critical few actions that have the biggest impact.

. Today, I’m speaking with Belinda Wiggins, who’s the successful founder and now former owner of BWS Recruitment. She was in one of my first CEO masterclasses back in 2019. A lot of people in recruitment find themselves falling into it by chance, and she was one of them.

But it was a happy accident, and recruitment gave her the opportunity to do what she loved most. Belinda Connecting people, building strong, lasting relationships, and helping them succeed.

She [00:01:00] established the boutique recruitment firm over 20 years ago. And interestingly, the business has a history of over 29 years due to its earlier acquisition. It became recognized and, and respected. as specializing in executive and contract recruitment for the not for profit and health sectors, commercial and community services organizations.

Little did she know then that this last year she would successfully exit from the business and continue in a consulting capacity. Belinda, welcome.

Thank you, John. Thanks for having me.

Oh, it’s an absolute delight. Absolute delight.

Likewise. Good to catch up again.

So Belinda, tell me a bit about your story.

What got you interested in recruitment and what possessed you to start your own business?

Exactly. Call me crazy. We’re going right back. Um, I, I grew up in Gippsland, so I’m a country girl, originally from Sale, um, [00:02:00] and I, I, I guess I did what a lot of young people did after finishing year 12, HSC as it was back then.

I did a gap year and went and worked for SO. Who had a big office in sale, um, back in those days and, and went and worked as an intern in their accounts department. Um, and then after my gap year head off to uni, still not knowing what I wanted to do. So completed a battle of arts. Um, at Monash University and then had the opportunity to go back to SO and commence a postgraduate degree in accounting of all things.

So, I took that opportunity up and over the course of the next year realised I was not cut out to be an accountant. Um, seeing Sitting in an office, you know, depreciating assets offshore on a oil rig was probably not my thing. Part of the job I really enjoyed was the project work. So [00:03:00] they probably realized that I like to chat.

So they had me working a lot of projects. I got to connect with other people in the business. When I was doing the project work, um, and it made me realise I needed to be in a job where I was working with people, um, which was where my passion was. So I left there after a year, stopped, halted the postgrad in, um, accounting and then headed to Melbourne, started interviewing and was researching what jobs, you know, involve a lot of people.

So I was applying for marketing and. And one of those opportunities led me to a recruitment firm. And, um, so I had an interview for a marketing job with one of their clients. And I remember at the end of the interview, the chap said to me, who ended up, I think, being the owner of the firm, you know, have you ever thought about working in recruitment?

So this is the happy accident. Um, and then I had to literally ask, well, what does a recruitment consultant do? You know, what, what is [00:04:00] the job? And so once he explained everything to me, Um, he planted a seed. I thought, well, that actually ticks a few boxes. So then I put my toe in the water, started into, I had two interviews at two recruiting firms, got offered both jobs.

So I thought, well, maybe other people think I could do this and then ended up at a, um, accounting recruitment firm given I’d worked in finance. I thought that might be a, easy introduction, because at least I’ll know what the people are doing in their jobs as I’m recruiting them. And that’s actually where I met Faye Stokes, um, who at the time was the manager of the temp division at this organization.

And then, you know, within five years, I ended up the manager of the perm team here. So again, it led me to, you know, a future connection and eventually I would end up buying Faye’s agency out, um, many years later, but wouldn’t have thought so at the [00:05:00] time. So, which is, um, which is interesting. So yeah, it was a happy accident to fall into recruitment, but, um, absolutely love it.

And so how did you transition from the idea of being an employee to then becoming an owner? Were you offered a partnership or you decided something else happened?

No, no. So I always had a bit of an itch to scratch. So at that first job, and it’s actually my only other recruitment role I’ve ever had, I’m very stable.

So I had five years there and I watched my former directors grow a very small boutique agency into sort of a And that national footprint over a number of years. Um, and thought, yeah, well, you know, that looks and we started recruiting. I started recruiting in the, um, July 89, believe it or not. And it was during the recession we had to have.

So not only do we have to sell the concept of what we did like as an [00:06:00] agency. Um, but also, um, for every job we posted, we had about 500 applications and all coming in via the mail that time at that stage, no internet or anything like that. Um, so, and I didn’t consider myself a salesperson. Sales person. I always said that, but essentially what we do is a sales function.

It’s more a soft, soft selling process. Um, but eventually over time, you know, I left there. I tried the internal recruitment thing for a while with Citibank overseas and then had a family. And then I just knew the timing had to be right. And, um, the opportunity presented at an unusual time. Um, I’d actually become a single mother at the time that I decided to, uh, join Faye’s small business and then eventually acquire that, um, and then later do a startup.

So of BWS. So it was an interesting [00:07:00] journey to get to this point.

So having taken over Faye’s job, over her business, you then looked at your own business. Tell me a bit more.

So I, um, Faye was, I think in her sixties, mid sixties at that stage and looking for an exit. I was sort of in the background. So I rejoined Faye after having a family. I literally walked in their office to have a coffee with her one day, cause I just started interviewing for, for jobs.

And she said, what are you doing in a suit? And pretty much offered me a job on the spot. And then I very quickly became her succession plan. So she wanted out of the business. And then I thought, okay, this is another alternative to having a business. So I thought, yes, and we had discussions, um, and Fay and I came to agreement and then I bought into the business, [00:08:00] um, About 22 years ago, I bought that business.

But what I did do and my mistake I made was, um, I bought in with a silent business partner. So I was a recently divorced single mom. Um, you know, lacking a little bit of self confidence at that stage, but still had this desire to have my own business, um, and have a crack at doing that. Um, so I, I acquired the business with a silent business partner.

which didn’t work out and resulted in us having to shut down the entity. And I immediately started up Bex Wiggins Stokes and Faye to her credit, who’s one of my very dear friends now, uh, came along, uh, for the journey with me, um, until she was 72. So she, she ran our temp desk and one of the best, one of the best temporary recruitment consultants I’ve ever worked with.

And I had to, my big challenge with her was convincing her to move off a card system, a manual card [00:09:00] system. She ran, you know, over a hundred attempts, um, and, um, moving her onto the, the computerized system. So I think we even had a funeral for her cards when we finally moved to that stage. So it was a bit of a pomp and ceremony for her.

But yeah, it was, it was a very big state learning curve, what happened.

Yeah. So tell me a bit more about this silent partner arrangement. So, so. I can totally understand you wanted to get into business, but probably feeling a little bit underconfident or a little bit insecure about whether you’d do that by yourself.

Correct. And you were looking at a silent partner mainly from the money perspective or from the knowledge perspective?

A bit of both. So I’d known this person for many years, um, through university and he was very entrepreneurial and I thought, well, he might be able to bring something to the table. Um, you [00:10:00] know, and be able to teach me how to run a business.

But, um, what happened there was really a misalignment of values, which I realized early on. So, um, I quickly, um, you know, got out of that. situation and then did the startup of Bex Wiggins Stokes, like for the benefit of the business. And then, um, you know, and I guess a lot of women and I’m one of them suffer from what, you know, the old imposter syndrome.

And if you’re a newly divorced mom with a eight and a six year old, um, and you know, a mortgage, you know, I was being very conservative by bringing in a business partner, but really from day one, I should have backed myself. Um, and, but the good thing, like it was, you know, It ended up being a blessing in disguise and a bit of a superpower because the learnings I got out of that failure, if you’d like to call it that, which it was, um, were [00:11:00] probably better than any sort of, you know, postgraduate degree I could have gotten.

Totally. So the support we had from clients and candidates and, you know, my old boss, who’s one of my mentor rang up and said, Oh, you should have backed yourself from day one. And, you know, so it was very heartening and I think I thrive under pressure. And when the chips were down, I had to make some critical decisions.

And, you know, wind up one entity and, and do a startup and, you know, and carry with me, I think we, we had about 11 staff at that stage. And, you know, like 50, 60 temps I was bringing across. So, um, it’s a lot of pressure and, you know, you put your house on the line, your neck on the chopping block. Um, but really like I knew.

I knew I had a skill set and could do what I did very well, but the lack of confidence came more around running a business. Did I have that skill set? And, [00:12:00] and as you know, you don’t know to run a business what you don’t know. And, and, um, There’s

so much to know.

There is so much to know. So, and luckily it all worked out.

And, um, you know, we, we became Bex Wiggins Stokes, uh, which has been, you know, nearly 20 years ago.

So on that Belinda, um, what I’m also reading behind, between the lines is that when you established the partnership, did you have a, uh, a formal agreement that not only figured out how the two of you were going to participate in this business, but also how you were going to exit from it at some point?

No. Which was my saving grace. It was a handshake agreement and again, naivety and, you know, being over trusting and, um, all, all the usual things that you are when you’re young and starting [00:13:00] out. But, um, but it was a blessing in disguise because it meant I could formally wind up that entity. I did try and, um, do a buyout like of my business partner, but sometimes Yeah.

People don’t work. It just doesn’t work. So, um, I had to then really back myself and start the new business up from scratch and, um, and start again, basically. So, yeah, but you know, a lot of, a lot of my clients rang and said, Oh, well, you know, now you’ve got, you know, welcome to the real world of running a business for Linda and you can wear that as a badge of honor.

And, you know, we’ve all been there, we’ve all been through that. Um, which was great. And

sometimes you have to experience these things to learn.

You do, you do. Absolutely. So it ended up being a bit of a blessing and I wasn’t as naive going into the new business. I can tell you. And I did formalize, you know, contracts and ticked every box after that I [00:14:00] probably became over, you know, risk adverse, you know, as a result, which is probably why I never had, um, a business partner since then.

Yes.

Because, um, it is a traumatic process to go through and, um, and the right one just didn’t present, you know, and, and I looked at succession planning from within the team a couple of times over the years, but for whatever reason, it wasn’t right on either side. Um, and, you know, and really I created the business.

as a single mom to give myself the freedom, um, and the financial security to give my family, my kids a good life. So everything after that was a bonus. Yeah.

Now I, I think a lot of you, Belinda, but I don’t believe that you only made one mistake in your business career. Were there any other major stuff ups that, that [00:15:00] came along that That presented some real learnings for you.

Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, the biggest one, I think, where do I start? Get comfortable. Now the biggest one was not backing myself from, from day one. So that lack of self confidence, self belief that you could do it on your own. And I think you almost have to have a bit of a cavalier. And even the mentality going into the new business was, oh, well, what’s the worst thing that could happen is, you know, I lose my house and then I’m living in a caravan at my dad’s property with the kids.

And that actually wasn’t a bad option. I could have handled that. Um, but, but as I said, it turned out to be a blessing. Another challenge for us with the business, because we were a generalist recruitment agency. Um, I didn’t get it quite right how to market our brand because, you know, you [00:16:00] can’t sell yourself as all things to all people.

We’re a white collar generalist recruitment agency. So, um, you know, which worked from, from executive through to business support. And as you know, we worked across not for profit and the commercial sector, but did sales and marketing and, um, business support. So there’s a diverse range of sectors. So I tried to, and this is where the CEO masterclass actually helped me to look at that, um, in a different way.

So we looked at maybe. Trying to segment the business and then I tried to sell the business as where a generalist agencies with specialist sectors within that brand. Um, but again, it was challenging how to do it. So then we learned how to segment the database and, you know, we broke up, but we, we, we analyzed the client base and.

Broke that up into, you know, the key [00:17:00] relationships, the big dollar spenders and worked our way back from there and put a strategy in place, which was as a result of doing the CEO masterclass. Yeah,

really good numbers.

Yeah, that’s right. So, um, and that’s why that ended up being a blessing at the time doing that program and especially being the first, one of the first, um, the first class who went through the program.

And as you might remember, COVID hit during that time as well.

Oh

my gosh. So, um, so yeah, the, the, the marketing, I took me a while to sort of get that right. And also the obvious one that a lot of business owners fall into the trap of is trying to be all things to all people. And I’m a bit of a perfectionist by nature.

So, um, and you know, I love what I do and I’ve got almost an over, like, um, [00:18:00] sense of urgency to deliver, like, You know, high quality service to our clients. So if I felt someone within the team might not have been delivering the service to the quality I expected, you know, I wasn’t sleeping nights and it would play on my mind.

And, and the way my brain works is that I needed to understand every aspect of the business and how it worked in order to be comfortable and be able to sleep at night. And maybe sometimes, you know, I probably sort of step back from that a bit sooner than I did. Um, because some people can perceive that as micromanaging, you know, and whereas me, it was, you know, just understanding, like you said, the numbers, which bits were working the business, which, which weren’t.

Um, but you learn over time, just bring experts in who know what they’re doing and all those key areas and let them run it. Thank you. you know, and report up to you. So, you know, and making sure so [00:19:00] you can get particularly in the early days, bogged down in the trenches and leave your team in the wake. So making sure that we, you know, you had those regular one on one catch ups with the team.

So we used to, we used to do annual reviews. We moved to quarterly, about 10, 12 years ago, which made a big difference in identifying any issues and resolving them quicker. And the staff felt they had a voice all throughout the year rather than once a year. Um, so that, that worked really well, but again, took, took a bit of refining to get that right, that messaging right.

And, um, Making sure that, yeah, you were communicating with the team, the vision rather than just heading off in, you know, your own direction, leaving them behind. Totally.

Yeah. Let’s see. So was delegation much of an issue for you? I, you talked a bit about micromanagement, but it sounds to me like you just needed [00:20:00] to understand the operations of the business.

And once you got, you know, a handle on that, then it made it easy for you to then manage other people to do the work. Correct.

Because then I understood what issues they were likely to face in their roles. Um, and you know, could work workshop that with them if need be. But eventually as you get bigger and Your brand grows, you attract better talent, and then you realize you don’t need to even be involved in most areas anymore.

Yeah, it’s just about

getting that confidence that they’re capable to do it, and once you are, then you can leave them to it.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

You also mentioned then, um, bringing in experts. Did you use experts much on your journey?

Um, probably not enough in the early days, just the obvious ones like the accountants and, you know, we always had a good company solicitor if we ever needed, um, you know, someone to [00:21:00] review contracts, that sort of thing.

Um, risk management, I was very big on risk management. So one of the first things I did was make sure our terms of business were bulletproof and, you know, protected us as a business. I looked at all our other, um, You know, we were almost probably heavily insured for a small business because we ran a temp desk as well across multiple sectors.

You know, even though it’s white collar, you know, there still could be accidents, you know, on the job, but just made sure that I was comfortable again, that we were very covered for all scenarios from an insurance point of view. Um, and then the experts. So as we grew, and again through the CEO masterclass I do with you, John, we were exposed to and, and given the resources through that program to engage experts.

So one was, you know, uh, Brett Bon Broner. Bon Za, yes, yes. From Alarm Me. Yeah, [00:22:00] exactly. So we engage like a marketing. specialist and that was during COVID. So when the market sort of collapsed, we, you know, focused and the class taught me the importance of marketing and the value it can add to your business through that program, or, you know, reinforce the importance.

So, um, We hired, um, you know, Brett and his team into the business for a couple of years, which had a immediate impact on, you know, engagement across all our social platforms and LinkedIn. And, um, you know, we had a proper marketing plan in place and, you know, newsletters and everything, and they were helping us with content.

So worked really well with the team. Um, and we did workshops around, um, even though, um, from day one, you need to focus on, you know, your purpose as a business and your why. Um, we did some further workshops, but included [00:23:00] the team this time, which I think added a lot of value. It wasn’t just, you know, the management doing it and then feeding that down.

So we’ve got input across the business. We surveyed the staff. staff. So, and again, that, um, really helped us. Um, and you know, the other experts that I tap into, uh, which is another bit of advice I would give to small business owners starting out, um, is to develop your networks and join. Um, groups where you’re going to be continually learning and developing, you know, doing professional development.

And one of them was the CEO Institute, which is where I first met you, John. I found that invaluable having sort of 16 to 18 CEOs around the table each week, each month, I should say. And we had guest speakers come and, you know, teach us about blockchain, you What is it, you know, [00:24:00] with, um, cryptocurrency and AI technology.

And, and obviously that was one of the challenges with a, uh, a service business was keeping on top of the technology and capabilities out there to sort of try and continually improve efficiencies within the business. Um, I personally love IT, adopter of whatever came out, I’d probably jump on. But. But yes, having guest speakers and having You know, 18 CEOs around a table each month was really invaluable for me, particularly being a sole director because you can’t vent to your staff, but you can vent to, you know, in a confidential forum like that was, I found that one of the best things I did actually as a business owner.

And what were some of the other game changes that really accelerated your growth or accelerate your profitability?

Yeah. Well, the number one thing [00:25:00] is obviously hiring the right people. So I always preach to my clients, you know, hire slow, fire fast, as we all get taught. But when you’re caught up in your own business and time poor, I think sometimes didn’t follow or practice what I was preaching.

So I got burnt a couple of times, but we did have over the years, some amazing staff within the business that, you know, helped me grow the business and I couldn’t have done it without them. So the people getting the people, right. And the, you know, the, The level of, um, expertise we needed was a key factor for driving off it.

Technology was definitely the other game changer. And luckily, um, you know, like a lot of business going into COVID, we had moved to the cloud. We had embraced, you know, soft phones on the laptop. So, um, When we suddenly overnight had to move to remote working. It was not an issue for us. [00:26:00] Um, so, um, and my mentors and my support networks are definitely, definitely were a game changer because as a, A sole director of a business, particularly there are nights when or days you go home from work and think, Why on earth did I do this?

What was I thinking? And, um, sometimes you can ring one of your mentors or, you know, someone in the network just to sort of get a Tough love chat, you know, have a tough love conversation with them and you know, vent and then get back on the horse the next day and then off you go again. So I found that really, really invaluable.

Um, and learning over the years to be more strategic. With my planning and, and remembering to communicate that plan to the team. So that was something that I, that was a bit of a game changer because even when I did the, the CEO masterclass, you know, [00:27:00] some of my management team was saying, Oh, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re like a different person.

And now I was on this mission to sort of step back from the business and try and get it to the point where it could run itself. Um, and then, um, um, was more looking at everything then. And, and we had a plan and we’re doing workshops. So they all just loved it. So it worked out, worked out really well. I probably drive them nuts to be honest.

I cannot imagine that, Belinda.

Oh, sure.

You’ve been too nice. So, um, so you mentioned the Masterclass a couple of times. What are three things that changed you as a result of the Masterclass? Um.

How is Belinda different? How is Belinda different? Belinda is, um, a bit more [00:28:00] considered now. So she’s sort of doing deep breaths now.

And, and, um, and while I, you know, while I was still the owner of the business, you know, it made me, gave me a bit better perspective. So I sat back and really looked at the business, um, and started using, you know, deep diving and extracting data to make better informed decisions. which I hadn’t done enough of in the past.

Um, and even like ensuring that, you know, I continually looked at our strategic plan, not just set and forget. So, you know, we don’t just create this wonderful plan and, and, and then just put it in the drawer. That’s right. So the plan I actually did during your course, um, was for sort of the next three to five years.

And when COVID hit, I actually had to accelerate it because we had two offices at the time. So, so we merged [00:29:00] the two into one, which was what our original plan was, um, to do as I was getting the, going to be getting the business ready to sell. I was going to consolidate a few things in So, um, so definitely.

You know, it made me focus on working on how to get this business working without me in it, or being so reliant on me. And my focus of an appreciative marketing changed, and getting the right message out there. Um, and being more strategic with my marketing or the business’s marketing. Um, and the other big thing was, um, Seeking customer feedback.

I hadn’t done enough of that and more formally, which again, Sort of fed back into the marketing, you know, what is it that we do? Well, you know, what is it, our client, what information would our client like from us, or, you know, what learnings can we [00:30:00] provide to our client base? So it’s not like. You’re direct selling, but you’re a subject, you’re seen as a subject matter expert.

So we started working a lot on, you know, the blogs and we redid the website after your program. And, um, we did white papers, um, and all sorts of things like that. So we could have really different sort of more high level conversations with our clients and add value and even more value to their business.

So that sounds like you started having real conversations with your clients specifically around how you were serving them and how they wanted to be served, is that right? Yes, correct, correct. And how did they work out? I mean, how did you

manage that process? It was, well, We embraced, we’ve actually, um, we have a software now called Sourcer.

So every time a placement’s made within the business, a survey gets sent out to the clients and the candidates. [00:31:00] So we always treat feedback from both equally as importantly. Um, so we go, we now get direct feedback after every, um, every placement, which has been invaluable. Cool. And you can use that, you know, weave that into your marketing message as well, which has been great.

But we went out on site and I think there was definitely a shift in, you know, the consulting bit of our job. So, you know, we, we worked with the consultants to have more higher level conversations around future planning of their teams and, you know, You know, um, when they rang with the job, we needed to make sure, have you explored all your options first internally before coming to us?

Because, you know, we don’t want at the 11th hour an internal person to put the hand up and suddenly the process is pulled and, you know, you walk away, um, without any, uh, reward for your effort, put it that way. So, so yeah, that was amazing. [00:32:00] And. Just getting that message out there because we all, we knew the clients trust, trusted us.

Um, they knew that we deliver a good service, but it was really interesting to understand what it was they really liked about us that made us unique as a recruitment firm. It is a very saturated market. And really it was the basic things. Cause I strategically kept us lean and mean, as you say, and boutique size.

I never wanted to grow too big that we lost that uniqueness about being a boutique business, that personalized service I never implemented. phone systems where a client had to ring and press one for Bob and two for Jane, you know, and leave a message and then never hear back. So our policy was that if someone called the business, particularly a client, a consultant would have to take that call regardless of who it was in the team.

So yeah, that was service, [00:33:00] you know, it was a good experience from reception through to the completion of our projects.

So speaking about, uh, Seek, uh, speaking about technology, it, it, it brings up the question in my mind. So as a recruitment business, how did, um, Seek, uh, and LinkedIn have an impact on the way you ran the business and, but potentially also your dependence on those technology platforms that really you actually have limited control over.

No, absolutely. Well, um, so that relationship with both has changed over the years, which is, is, has been good, good and bad. Like, um, we still do utilize seek for advertising, but we also tap into their talent pool, which is a separate app within seek, um, [00:34:00] as one of our tools for doing candidate searching. Um, To, you know, to fill jobs.

And LinkedIn’s the same. We do occasionally use it for some of our more senior roles to advertise, but we utilize more their headhunting tools through LinkedIn. And LinkedIn’s more about, um, the brand, getting our branding out there, you know, and publishing material that Positions us as subject matter experts, utilizing LinkedIn and we utilize, we, we ran monthly newsletters to all our followers, you know, it was an easy, quick way to communicate with people that were interested in the brand and connected with us on LinkedIn and following, you know, the company and each individual.

And it went back to, and we utilized it to actually promote the team as subject matter specialists in this sector. [00:35:00] So if it was our temp consultant, you know, she would always be writing, um, information about, or, or, you know, little spiels about, you know, experiences in the tent market and what she’s observing and if it was the executive side, it’d either be myself or John Wallace, our new MD.

Yeah. Who, um, you know, positioning us as subject matter experts in that field and vice versa. So, um, So, um, yeah, seeks a necessary evil, I say, because they’ve got such a monopoly in the market. And again, it’s often for branding. We’ve got the ads up because a lot of our roles are now filled through our network and through our search tools.

That’s where it’s changed dramatically over the last 20, you know, probably 30 years that I’ve been in recruitment all up. So, um, which makes the process a little bit more interesting. So you can connect with passive candidates as well as active through these tools. [00:36:00] Yeah. Interesting.

So. We, you’ve talked a little bit about, um, you’re no longer the owner of the business.

Tell me a bit about your exit and how did you plan for it or did someone just come up to you with a huge pot of money and you just said, Oh, that’s a good idea. No, no, I wish. I

guess I learned early on, which I think a lot of people are preaching now that you really need to start planning for your exit from day one.

And I very much did that. So I went into the business, you know, as a single mom with the, the end goal being, you know, to create that freedom and flexibility I needed to be able to juggle both running a business and being a present mom. I didn’t want to, you know, be an absent mom. And also, you know, to set an example for my kids that, you know, if you love what you do, and you’ve got a passion, [00:37:00] you know, you literally can do whatever you put your mind to it.

And, you know, and having a crack and failing is not a bad thing, but yeah, having a crack and have it work is even better, as you know, so. So, and my goal was really to get them through secondary school and then I’d reassess there, but of course you, you, you develop an absolute love and, um, passion for running a business most, most days.

So we got to that point and, um, you know, it was still ticking along nicely, but I did start looking at, you know, what does my exit plan look like? And I mentioned, I did look at some of my management team to see whether they could be, you know, can I groom them up to be the succession plan. But really the decision to exit my business came in 2021.

Yeah. Um, when I took on another responsibility that a lot of people in my age bracket do, I [00:38:00] became a full-time carer for my dad who was diagnosed with dementia and actually ended up moving in with us. Yes. So that’s where I scaled the business back a little bit and we’d, we’d already merged the offices into one, and then I just organically didn’t replace this.

staff that left during that period so I could get it to a size that I could juggle, you know, everything. So we’d just gone through COVID. I’d become a full time carer and, you know, was trying to run a business. And then at the end, um, and we had the post COVID boom, you know, in So the year 23, 24 year, and I was just so exhausted and thought, you know, this job’s going to kill me in the end, but, but it was really that fast track, my decision, something’s got to give.

And I was ready. I’d, you know, scratch that itch and loved it. And, but it was really time for me to have a [00:39:00] life again, really, and, and step back a bit, um, and focus more again on, on my dad and my family. So. So I actively started, um, planning at that stage. So I, I guess I scaled the business back a little bit, as I said, started looking at overheads and costs within the business to try and reduce those or get those under better control and increase profit.

And I also renegotiated all my contracts over that two years prior. So I had nothing to More than a year in place. And in most cases, I negotiate six monthly contracts, you know, with leases and different things so that I was ready to go if the right buyer presented at that stage.

Okay. So that got you to a stage where you were ready for an exit.

Yes. And how did you then go through the

process?

Yes. No, no, absolutely. [00:40:00] I actually utilize a business broker with a lot of trepidation, as you can imagine, cause they don’t always have the best reputation. But again, through my networks, um, through the CEO Institute, we had this chap come and speak to our group.

Who really resonated with me and all of my group turned to me and said, Belinda, we think you need to have a meeting with this chap. And he was also a CPA accountant. So he really knew his numbers, which sat really well with me. Um, and could advise you upfront what you needed to do, what you hadn’t already done, um, to fill in those gaps to get it ready.

Um, and that ended up, that took all the emotion out of it for me. Okay. Um, I’m obviously, um, a bit of a, I’m not going to say a sucker, it sounds terrible, but you know, when it’s your business, you know, and you’re too close to it, it is good to remove yourself. And I’m very [00:41:00] trusting, I should say. So he had a bit of bulldog in him that I probably lacked.

So putting it in a broker’s hands and letting him have all the tough discussions and do the negotiation. Um, yeah, it worked really well for me and he got me the outcome I needed. Yeah. Thanks a

lot. Yeah. What were some of the challenges as you went through that process? Well, there

were a few, but I’ve sort of got it down to three main ones.

So staying sane during the process was number one, because there’s a lot of tire kickers out there. You know, I had a lot of meetings that didn’t go anywhere. And you get to the point you think, Oh my gosh, am I just wasting my time? And are there any genuine buyers out there? And then at almost the 11th hour when I was, you know, nearly in a straitjacket, the right buyer came along.

Cause for me, it wasn’t necessary. Like I really sold the business probably in a downturn market. I probably [00:42:00] should have done it the year before, but I wasn’t ready with everything I was juggling. But for me, it was very important who I sold the business to. I really wanted it to go into a good pair of hands where we had that base alignment.

So I knew it The staff and the customers would be well looked after, which is, which is how it has worked out, which is great. But the other challenge was not being able to tell the team, but you do feel like you’re deceiving them a little bit, or you’ve been a bit dishonest, but I couldn’t risk for any, anyone to get wobbly during that time or for.

You know, anything to happen. But I knew in the back of my mind that my end goal was that all of them would keep their jobs as part of this process. And if we sold to the right person, the plan would be to scale it back up, um, and, or continue to grow it, which is exactly, uh, what the new owner, uh, Dan is planning to [00:43:00] do, which is fantastic.

So. And the other one was, um, because I was doing, doing it, um, by a stealth, like more or less, I had, I was very heavily involved with a lot of the due diligence myself and the reports that were needed. So I found myself working six, seven days a week, particularly for that last 12 months, sort of, you know, Pulling together all the data.

Obviously the external accountant helped with a lot of the numbers side, but yeah, you know, they want operational information and, you know, placement time, you know, all sorts of ratios and data that, um, you know, was easier for me to pull together. So that, that actually was a bit of a challenge as well.

Finding the time to be, to be able to do that.

Well, it’s almost a, a, at least a three or four day a week job.

Exactly. Exactly. So, and luckily, yeah, it all, all, all came off last year.

And how have you found the, the, um, [00:44:00] uh, well, I guess there’s, there’s two points in that. So you got to a price, um, and, but there’s always strings attached.

So did you have a situation where you had to work with the business for a number of years for transition purposes or?

Yeah. How did that work out? Well, that was my challenge. I did not want an earn out and I did not want any strings attached because of my personal situation, you know, that I didn’t know, you know, if my dad was going to need me.

Like a hundred percent or what was going to happen there. Um, so I managed to find a buyer that ticked all the boxes. I didn’t have an earn out. Um, we structured a deal in a way that I could exit, you know, um, when we both mutually agreed, um, and I could scale back those. So I’m sort of working part time now.

[00:45:00] Um, and Um, and we hired, and I hired someone to replace myself. So again, I did post an ad, but I didn’t find the person through an ad. So this John Wallace, our new MD was referred to me through our network again. Um, and yeah, one of, um, the chap that referred Don to me said, you know, he’s almost like the male version of you.

Complete values alignment. The two of you have got to meet. And yeah, it was an instant fit for the business for each other, you know, and I knew that I was handing over the clients to a very safe pair of hands. Um, and he actually brought in new skills cause he’d worked in know, strategic consulting and he’d done, you know, he’d run recruiting firms himself and brought in another dimension of expertise that really complimented business.

You know, I learned from him each day and he [00:46:00] hopefully learned something from me as well, you know, vice versa. But it works very well, very respectfully. And to be honest, it’s great to have someone you can have a robust discussion with again, you know, without anyone being offended, you know, so the two of us challenge each other and, um, you know, come to a really good result together.

So it’s been brilliant and he’s a great leader. So it actually couldn’t have worked out better in that regard. So I got very lucky. I got very lucky.

Now your identity has been tied to BWS recruitment for 20 something years now. Yes. How are you feeling about your transition from being the boss to not being there?

A lot of people ask me this, like literally everyone that I cat top with. I absolutely love it. So I guess I don’t have an ego and you know, I’m always curious. I’m a curious person, which I think you need to be, if [00:47:00] you’re going to run a small business, um, and keep on top of all the changes that occur. So bringing someone in with our new MD’s expertise, I found refreshing, um, you know, it’s sort of almost, you know, what, what I’ve been able to do is hand over all the parts of the job that caused me stress to, to John.

And I get to focus on the bit I really love, you know, the recruitment, the connecting people, you know, the joy of, you know, making a difference in people’s lives, which really at the end of the day is what we do. And I believe we do it well. So, so I actually have totally embraced it. You know, it’s, it’s great having a new owner as well, Dan, who’s fantastic, who’s based in, in Sydney.

So we have catch up meetings with him once a week. Thanks for having me. And he’s got a strategic, um, business himself, Tomorrow Strategy Co. So again, [00:48:00] there’s another high level strategic mindset in the mix. So I found it very stimulating, very, um, rewarding. And yeah, I had no problem handing over the reins, I can tell you.

Here, John, you can have the whole lot.

And you’ve hung around.

He looks more stressed than me, which, no. So no, it couldn’t have been, couldn’t have worked out better in that regard. Two great

people.

Yeah.

So Belinda, if you’re now going back in time and talking to that younger Belinda, just starting out, what advice would you give yourself?

Yep. I guess to, to back yourself without hesitation, you know, and just believe in yourself, get out of your head and stop being so self critical and You know, overanalyzing everything and beating [00:49:00] yourself up.

And then also though, just to take a breath and reflect every now and then on what you have been able to achieve, you know, and, and the good parts of the business and, you know, the impact you’re having, which you sometimes just do not. Have time to do. And really it’s only since selling the business that I can really look back and said, Oh, well, let’s just survive 20 years, which I guess is a good innings.

And, um, you know, I didn’t burn any bridges along the way and, you know, met some incredible people. So, you know, you do have to pat yourself on the back occasionally. Um, especially being a sole director because there’s no one else to pat your back. So, you know, so it’s, it’s, it’s, But it’s been like the best experience of, you know, one of the best experiences of my working life, put it that way, and being the master of your own destiny and doing it as a single mum.

So hopefully I’ve inspired a few single mums out there [00:50:00] that shouldn’t prevent you from doing this. No,

no, it’s, it’s absolutely a challenge, but it shouldn’t stop you. No. It’s interesting. And you talk about the backing yourself, which also talks about sort of over. Overcoming your insecurity. I often see with high achievers, um, uh, present company included that, you know, that insecurity.

Um, is one of their, um, is actually in some ways a superpower because it’s the insecurity that that question around imposter syndrome, do I deserve to be here, am I the right person to be doing this? Yes. Am I doing it well enough? Are my processes and systems good enough? Yes. Am I providing good enough service?

It’s that that actually matters. helps them over perform and over deliver beyond what the average koala bear would, would do. Yeah. Um, [00:51:00] and, you know, I think that that’s an essential part of actually what makes us special and what, well, sometimes very special, uh, but also what, what makes us be, you know, really good or outstanding performers.

No, no, I, I’d agree with that. Cause honestly it took me probably two years to be comfortable telling people, I actually owned a business because I was so terrified it was going to fail and you know, when it started to go well, I thought, okay, maybe I’ll tell a few people, but I always just said I was a recruiter, you know, at the end of the day, that’s what I do.

Um, and then I got comfortable, you know, and, and did tell people that, yeah, I owned a business. Um, and, and there were a lot of naysayers when I bought the business as a single mom, you can imagine. I had friends. Mainly husbands telling me, you know, Oh, you’re, you’re mad, you know, why don’t you just go and work for someone else to be far less risky and, you know, less stressful.

[00:52:00] How are you going to do this? And I literally just turned around and said, on every occasion, if I was a man, would we be having this conversation? Yes. And the answer was no, you know, I’m not like an extreme feminist or anything, but I thought, well, well, there’s plenty of men out there that a single dad’s doing it.

And, um, why can’t I do it as a single mom? And I saw it as a vehicle to give my kids a good life. I mean, luckily I’ve met my now husband just after I bought the business, but, you know, and very happy, um, you know, very happy relationship now. Bye. And, and he took me on knowing that I’d just bought a business and was, you know, in the middle of all this stress of that.

So he’s definitely a keeper, he’s stuck, hung around.

Yeah. Well, you had human kids and you also had a business kid. Exactly. And, um, and you know, that’s more than enough parenting to go around.

Exactly. Right. Exactly. I like

what you said about, um, uh, taking a breath and actually [00:53:00] celebrating what you’d achieved.

Yeah. On a regular basis, because I think as, as business owners, we so often, um, are fixated on fixing the next problem. And once we fix that problem, we just go on to the next one and the next one, and there’s no time to, to fix it. Even pause to reflect on well, what have we really achieved? Isn’t that amazing what we’ve done or what what a fantastic outcome for a client or isn’t it fantastic the way we’ve helped that person develop their career and and Professionalism and so on what a contribution i’ve made to my industry, but um You know, often, often we don’t make the time, um, and, and celebrate those milestones, uh, because we’re just so, so driven.

Yeah. Yeah. Of course, I guess that’s part of what actually also makes us pretty amazing.

No, exactly.

So if a CEO, [00:54:00] is coming to you and looking to develop their business, uh, based on your experiences. What critical few actions should they start doing tomorrow if they did nothing else?

Yep.

So

I think right off the bat is to get your purpose as a business is.

Right. And, you know, follow the Simon Sinek principles of, you know, ask yourself, start with your why, why do you want to start a business? What is it that’s driving you to do this? And what do you want your business to look like? That’s right. And what’s your contribution, you know, to the world if you do start this business.

So I think that is really important. Um, and to make sure that you have a strategic plan, probably from, from day one, don’t wait to start the business and see how it goes and fly by the seat of your pants. Even if it’s a small plan, [00:55:00] you know, short term plan, because in the early days when I bought the business, I did set small achievable goals.

And as the business grew, the goals grew with it, but they were realistic so that I did feel like I was achieving those goals along the way. And you could tick, tick them off mentally. Um, just even just to reassure yourself. And then also once you’re up and running to sort of make sure you get Customer feedback along the way.

So for us in the early days, it was even asking the candidates, you know, about their experience with us. And sorry, I’ve got a frog in my throat right at the end. And even, you know, the fact that we get so many referrals from candidates is a really good indication that they really enjoyed how we looked after them.

We get back to candidates as well, which is unfortunately, um, unique in this, you know, fast moving world and AI sort [00:56:00] of responses to everything. Um, but yeah, just make sure you, you seek customer feedback and tailor your marketing around that feedback to get the message right and look after your key relationships.

And they could be your key client relationships or key supplier relationships. Um, because when I did the startup, um, going from one entity to another, I was pretty cash strapped and, and hadn’t had my funding come through at the time. And I had, you know, the IT manager go and, um, lease all the equipment, you know, on his account for me.

And I had people ringing me up, do you want a business partner? What do you want? Do you need money? So, um, you know, key relationships. It’s right across the border, just so critical and you know, never compromise your integrity ever and you’re, you know, just back yourself in your own judgment.

[00:57:00] Fantastic.

That’s really insightful. Thank you for sharing that. My pleasure. This has been a terrific conversation. I’ve absolutely loved it. Um, we’ve, we’ve certainly covered some ground right from the start of, of setting up your business, having, um, having gone through the unpleasant but fabulously learning experience of having a silent partner and having to restart.

Looking at how to balance your, that your input into the business and balance the way the business operated around you as a new single mum of, To under 10 kids, and then as you then grew the business and developed it, but also started to niche down and get clear around what you were going to be known for, and then the whole preparation process for your exit to, to make your next stage of needs.

It’s been a fantastic conversation. [00:58:00] Thanks for being so, so candid

with me. No, thank you. I really enjoyed it, John, and always a pleasure to catch up with you. Thanks, Belinda. Thanks for the opportunity.

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